Pocketing Police
An odd bit of news from the xorg foundation. During some discussion on their mailing list about missing funds it became apparent that PayPal had simply taken $5k of their money because PayPal thought xorg foundation were some sort of scam.
This has lead to more people boycotting paypal and a general unease about the liberty of financial transactions online.
For me it demonstrates a core corruption in the way our governments tackle law enforcement online. Instead of improving the police and the judiciary so that they can effectively cope with online fraud, copyright infringement and illegal computer entry, the governments are instead creating laws which force service providers to be the police, judge and executioner of punishments.
Everything from this PayPal misappropriation to the infamous three strikes internet connectivity laws currently being discussed in Europe. All of it shows the same disregard for impartiality, fair, open courts with a proper objection process. Instead we can replace courts and police with companies who’s job is providing us goods and services we pay for, so they can’t really be impartial.
Mix in heinously badly written laws like the DMCA who vagaries rank right up there with bible quotes. Who’s job it is to spread around the job of criminalising the general population so that everyone is responsible for watching and reporting on everyone else…
Wait that sounds awfully familiar…
There is no replacement for the judiciary for criminal activity, if the majority of people are tipping up over a law it’s because the law is wrong, not the majority of people. Most of these laws that grant corperate policing powers are so vague that even the mere hint of infringement or suspect activity is dealt with same severity as the worst offenders of real criminal activity. (if real criminals get caught by these schemes at all)
Tags: paypal
So did PayPal eventually give this $5k back once they were informed of their error?
A problem with the organisation of money apparently.
I used to their “contact us” to protest this and told them I won’t be using their service anymore because of this.
And where goes the money taken from other genuine scam accounts? In PayPal’s pockets?
I stopped using PayPal a hell of a long time ago after I read all the small print. If you thought credit card companies were bad just take a look at PayPal.
You are correct about service providers being the judge and jury. I recently had a copyright issue with my ISP and was disconnected with no explanation. When I called them I was informed that I was a thief and was lectured to about copyright law.
Yes, the law is broken. Big time. It is unfortunate that xorg’s funds were taken because of an assumption. As I have learned it is easy to assume something without real evidence. If I had any extra money laying around I would send it to xorg just for their inconvenience.
You’re correct that the problem is the government is placing responsibility on companies to act as a judge.
I don’t know the particulars of this case, but there federal laws (and laws in most countries that PayPal operates in) that require them to look for and report any suspicious behavior.
Legit companies can be used to launder money without realizing it. If PayPal notices irregularities in financial transactions, they are required by law to report them.
My only beef with this article (and most on the subject) is the suggestion that PayPal stole the money. If they’re merely freezing assets/halting transactions in accordance with the law, then they aren’t stealing anything.
Calling for people to boycott a company simply because they are following the law doesn’t seem very ethical to me.
I stopped using paypal in 2002 after money sent to me from an ebay auction was held pending a fraud investigation. The facts were simple really,
I put a computer up for auction, the buyer won and paid through paypal. Shipping was easy since we only lived 3 miles apart, we just met at Cashman Caterpillar and I gave him the computer. The trouble was the difference between where paypal knew I lived when I made the account and where I lived at the time of the transaction. I figured since I was just going to keep the money in paypal in case a hot deal came up on ebay it would not be to big a deal, just confirm my ID and be done. No way in hell. To get my ID straightened out I needed the credit card number and exp. which I signed up with which I no longer possessed due to divorce plus no talking with the ex or I could start another account and have the buyer get his money back then repay on the new account. Let’s just say I chalked up the 200$ as lesson learned.
WoW…. you are one ethical dude… LOL
Dishing out punishments, including the self authorisation of the freezing of account funds is not ethical nor a standard of justice I am willing to accept in a post enlightenment age.
The correct course of action is to collect the data and pass it on to the proper authorities where proper action can be taken and if need be escalated.
Do you think that it’s right to treat criminals so lightly and the innocent so harshly with the suspension of services or the freezing of access? It’s better that the authorities get in an actually investigate claims and resolve them. If this was done in those case then the money would be unfrozen by now wouldn’t it.
Well – did PayPal has given the money back they have stolen?
If not – when legal action is taken? PayPal are just ordinairy thieves in this case. They haven taken money away that they do not own and have no right to take, so this is a legal case fo sure. They have to be convicted as robbers or thieves.
Why the hell is this accepted as “buisness as usual”? I don’t get it…
Courts and the legal process are time consuming and expensive. Often what these laws and rulings represent are misinformed attempts to sidestep those costs. Such attempts are often poorly informed and rushed to completion.
Sadly, the legislative process is as broken as the patent one and vested interests end up calling the tune far too often. It is not a new problem; examples of public policy directed to private gain can be found throughout history. Change could be nice, though.
Anybody using PayPal needs to take a look at PayPalSucks.com and think very carefully about this.
I used it years ago when I lived in the far east and at one point my account was frozen for no reason whatever (that IP address?? You must be a criminal). At the time I read suggestions that a number of Paypal employees were helping themselves to funds. I did eventually get my money back by using a grapevine to track down an honest and helpful employee — absolutely unavailable via regular channels (I tried). What I had to go through to be my money back was AMAZING. Birth certificate, passport, driving license, contract of employment etc.
Since eBay has taken over I gather things have been cleaned up substantially but I would still be very wary of this company. Yes, it has been sinned against by crooks but it has also treated people abominably and engaged in all kinds of apparently capricious confiscation.
This story comes as NO SURPRISE.
If our banks were any good they’d have provided alternative services long ago.
Considering how many times PayPal has been hacked by thieves is it prudent to use them as a channel for the exchange of money and goods?