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	<title>Comments on: Gnome Icons: What the Devels are up to</title>
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	<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/</link>
	<description>Just this guy, you know.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 20:46:16 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: mpt</title>
		<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-3249</link>
		<dc:creator>mpt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctormo.wordpress.com/?p=1974#comment-3249</guid>
		<description>“I even remember the famous MPT disagreeing with that decision”

That’s incorrect. On the contrary, I was one of those involved in the initial decision to reduce the number of icons in menus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“I even remember the famous MPT disagreeing with that decision”</p>
<p>That’s incorrect. On the contrary, I was one of those involved in the initial decision to reduce the number of icons in menus.</p>
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		<title>By: Hylke</title>
		<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-2987</link>
		<dc:creator>Hylke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctormo.wordpress.com/?p=1974#comment-2987</guid>
		<description>Benjamin: A poll is not a usability study, far from it. An important rule in usability studies is that &quot;users don&#039;t know what they want/need&quot;. We didn&#039;t base our decision to remove icons from menus based on our own usability studies, but based on articles that were already avaiiable about things like readability of text and the meaning of icons.

Because I&#039;m really tired of being the target of rants and blamed for &quot;lack of openness&quot; i would suggest we hold a real usability study about this at GUADEC 2010 and finally put this behind us forever.

The argument that having no icons in menus would be bad for people that have dyslexiia is an interesting one and one that we did not consider at the time. I would like to see this tested as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benjamin: A poll is not a usability study, far from it. An important rule in usability studies is that &#8220;users don&#8217;t know what they want/need&#8221;. We didn&#8217;t base our decision to remove icons from menus based on our own usability studies, but based on articles that were already avaiiable about things like readability of text and the meaning of icons.</p>
<p>Because I&#8217;m really tired of being the target of rants and blamed for &#8220;lack of openness&#8221; i would suggest we hold a real usability study about this at GUADEC 2010 and finally put this behind us forever.</p>
<p>The argument that having no icons in menus would be bad for people that have dyslexiia is an interesting one and one that we did not consider at the time. I would like to see this tested as well.</p>
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		<title>By: fraang</title>
		<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-2986</link>
		<dc:creator>fraang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctormo.wordpress.com/?p=1974#comment-2986</guid>
		<description>Yeah! The idea is great! It would be very useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah! The idea is great! It would be very useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-2983</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctormo.wordpress.com/?p=1974#comment-2983</guid>
		<description>As a user who has no disabilities i like the toned down icons.  However, you raise an important point.  Perhaps the best place to address this would be in the Ubuntu (whichever) installer?  At an early stage perhaps it should as the user if they have any disabilities or impairments and which accessibility options would they like enabled?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a user who has no disabilities i like the toned down icons.  However, you raise an important point.  Perhaps the best place to address this would be in the Ubuntu (whichever) installer?  At an early stage perhaps it should as the user if they have any disabilities or impairments and which accessibility options would they like enabled?</p>
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		<title>By: jef spaleta</title>
		<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-2982</link>
		<dc:creator>jef spaleta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctormo.wordpress.com/?p=1974#comment-2982</guid>
		<description>Did anyone ever claim that any specific features of Gnome or even Ubuntu were decided democratically or even via representative governance? Whoever encouraged you to believe that should be ashamed..they set you up with the wrong expectations.

What exactly is the ideal communication workflow here? Where exactly do GNOME developers need to announce that a discussion is taking place each and every time a change maybe made in order to ensure everyone who is potentially impacted gets their chance to argue the pros and cons of that change?

Do they really need to reach down into every single linux distribution that includes GNOME  and announce every single change that is up for discussion? Isn&#039;t this the sort of thing that your chosen distribution&#039;s participants in Gnome development should be doing as a project liason to communicate to you as a distribution user? Who are the members of the Ubuntu community who are also active GNOME developers that you can rely on to filter information down into Ubuntu communication channels? Who from Canonical is going to the GNOME conferences? Are they reporting back to the Ubuntu community appropriately about changes under discussion?  Why isn&#039;t Martin reaching out specifically to those people and asking them to do a better job of being the bridge across projects?

There is no one place to send an notice that will catch all the Martins in the world... all the people who are potentially impacted by a design decision and want to impotently shake their fist in rage

Since Martin&#039;s argument is essential accessibility with regard to dyslexia impaired users, the only real question is this, was this change communicated to gnome&#039;s accessibility team for comment. If it was then the developer&#039;s have done their due diligence and the question becomes does gnome accessibility team have a dyslexia resource member who can represent the needs of dyslexic users.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did anyone ever claim that any specific features of Gnome or even Ubuntu were decided democratically or even via representative governance? Whoever encouraged you to believe that should be ashamed..they set you up with the wrong expectations.</p>
<p>What exactly is the ideal communication workflow here? Where exactly do GNOME developers need to announce that a discussion is taking place each and every time a change maybe made in order to ensure everyone who is potentially impacted gets their chance to argue the pros and cons of that change?</p>
<p>Do they really need to reach down into every single linux distribution that includes GNOME  and announce every single change that is up for discussion? Isn&#8217;t this the sort of thing that your chosen distribution&#8217;s participants in Gnome development should be doing as a project liason to communicate to you as a distribution user? Who are the members of the Ubuntu community who are also active GNOME developers that you can rely on to filter information down into Ubuntu communication channels? Who from Canonical is going to the GNOME conferences? Are they reporting back to the Ubuntu community appropriately about changes under discussion?  Why isn&#8217;t Martin reaching out specifically to those people and asking them to do a better job of being the bridge across projects?</p>
<p>There is no one place to send an notice that will catch all the Martins in the world&#8230; all the people who are potentially impacted by a design decision and want to impotently shake their fist in rage</p>
<p>Since Martin&#8217;s argument is essential accessibility with regard to dyslexia impaired users, the only real question is this, was this change communicated to gnome&#8217;s accessibility team for comment. If it was then the developer&#8217;s have done their due diligence and the question becomes does gnome accessibility team have a dyslexia resource member who can represent the needs of dyslexic users.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Humphrey</title>
		<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-2980</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Humphrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctormo.wordpress.com/?p=1974#comment-2980</guid>
		<description>Psst, GNOME developers, you know how you guys are too busy or whatever to conduct usability surveys on what the real users would want?

Well, I did it for you by emailing a popular Ubuntu blog with everyday Ubuntu readers. Take a look. The poll results are interesting, too.

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/missing-menu-icons-what-are-gnome.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Psst, GNOME developers, you know how you guys are too busy or whatever to conduct usability surveys on what the real users would want?</p>
<p>Well, I did it for you by emailing a popular Ubuntu blog with everyday Ubuntu readers. Take a look. The poll results are interesting, too.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/missing-menu-icons-what-are-gnome.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/missing-menu-icons-what-are-gnome.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Humphrey</title>
		<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-2979</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Humphrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctormo.wordpress.com/?p=1974#comment-2979</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a great idea, and I think they should. I&#039;ll talk to some people and see if we can make it happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a great idea, and I think they should. I&#8217;ll talk to some people and see if we can make it happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Humphrey</title>
		<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-2978</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Humphrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctormo.wordpress.com/?p=1974#comment-2978</guid>
		<description>My point is that the *average Ubuntu user* wouldn&#039;t be able to change the code! They wouldn&#039;t know how, can you imagine my Mum trying to edit upstream source code when she doesn&#039;t even know how to drag and drop files?

The fact is that there are 10 million Ubuntu users out there, most of which aren&#039;t involved in the community. Most of which will never hear of this change or have a say in it, or be able to do anything about. One day they&#039;ll just upgrade to Lucid and wonder where the hell their icons have gone.

I&#039;m not saying we should contact every. single. Ubuntu user, but a couple of surveys on ubuntuforums.org or the redhat forums couldn&#039;t hurt. Hell, it only took my project a few days to get an enormous amount of feedback.

Popular Linux blog sites are usually too happy to help out projects with feedback from their reader base as well.

The fact is, if you&#039;re a developer, you need to be a researcher too - and too many people ignore this fact, hence why we end up with a lot of useless or duplicated applications.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point is that the *average Ubuntu user* wouldn&#8217;t be able to change the code! They wouldn&#8217;t know how, can you imagine my Mum trying to edit upstream source code when she doesn&#8217;t even know how to drag and drop files?</p>
<p>The fact is that there are 10 million Ubuntu users out there, most of which aren&#8217;t involved in the community. Most of which will never hear of this change or have a say in it, or be able to do anything about. One day they&#8217;ll just upgrade to Lucid and wonder where the hell their icons have gone.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying we should contact every. single. Ubuntu user, but a couple of surveys on ubuntuforums.org or the redhat forums couldn&#8217;t hurt. Hell, it only took my project a few days to get an enormous amount of feedback.</p>
<p>Popular Linux blog sites are usually too happy to help out projects with feedback from their reader base as well.</p>
<p>The fact is, if you&#8217;re a developer, you need to be a researcher too &#8211; and too many people ignore this fact, hence why we end up with a lot of useless or duplicated applications.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Humphrey</title>
		<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-2977</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Humphrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctormo.wordpress.com/?p=1974#comment-2977</guid>
		<description>No, I&#039;m sorry, that&#039;s not a valid argument.

What you&#039;re trying to say is like my government holding an election but only inviting the mayors of cities. Then afterwards they tell the rest of the population of the country &quot;Where were you?&quot; - but still try to label themselves a democracy.

And, for your information, the labels *cannot* be re-enabled any time - because the plan is to remove the interface tab of the appearance settings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I&#8217;m sorry, that&#8217;s not a valid argument.</p>
<p>What you&#8217;re trying to say is like my government holding an election but only inviting the mayors of cities. Then afterwards they tell the rest of the population of the country &#8220;Where were you?&#8221; &#8211; but still try to label themselves a democracy.</p>
<p>And, for your information, the labels *cannot* be re-enabled any time &#8211; because the plan is to remove the interface tab of the appearance settings.</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas Nilsson</title>
		<link>http://doctormo.org/2010/02/24/gnome-icons-what-the-devels-are-up-to/comment-page-1/#comment-2976</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Nilsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://doctormo.wordpress.com/?p=1974#comment-2976</guid>
		<description>It was on Planet GNOME and desktop-devel-list, the two most prominent GNOME communication channels. Should have been on other world centers too perhaps (like Planet Ubuntu?), lets work together and try to make such communication happen next time!

The IRC channels are #gnome-art and #gnome-design on gimpnet. Welcome!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was on Planet GNOME and desktop-devel-list, the two most prominent GNOME communication channels. Should have been on other world centers too perhaps (like Planet Ubuntu?), lets work together and try to make such communication happen next time!</p>
<p>The IRC channels are #gnome-art and #gnome-design on gimpnet. Welcome!</p>
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